Who are you? Part 3 - Coming out of the closet twice

I had planned on rolling out a bunch of these "Who are you?" segments, but then the whole Handbook policy leak happened and that shifted the focus in my writing and thoughts (along with many other Moho bloggers.)

I feel this is an appropriate time to bring you another one! I've had several private conversations with this interviewee, and he's just awesome. This past year, he's dealt with coming out of the closet twice 1) as gay and 2) as ex-Mormon. I told him several times that his story will help others gay Mormons trying to figure out what to do with their future. And he writes so well bringing it all together - plus he has great analogies. You'll find our "interview" below.

For the past couple "Who are you?" segments, click here. And If YOU want to share your story - let me know. Contact me using the form on the right or drop me a line - gaymormonsouthpaw (at) gmail (dot) com. I promise full anonymity. You give me your one single fact - and I'll ask my questions based on that.

Enjoy. 

Q. Describe your correlation/involvement to the Moho blogging community.

A. My involvement is actually in infancy. I've read Moho blog posts occasionally but never been a regular patron. Recently I've been thinking about starting a blog or finding somewhere to share my thoughts and stories but I'm still on the fence. I've been sharing some of my experiences on Reddit and it has been helpful for me as I deconstruct myself and try to figure out who I really am at my core.

Q. What's life been like both gay and Mormon?

A. Being gay and Mormon is like being the Incredible Hulk. Most of the time things are alright, and you live a normal life, because you have compartmentalized so thoroughly that an entire side of who you are is locked away tight. However, often things happen that will set you off. Maybe you see your nieces and nephews playing and realize that you'll never experience having a family of your own. Or it could be a remark in church about eternal families and the necessity of marriage. It could just be nothing--you're sitting on a bus and you forget to forget.

Suddenly the walls you've built in your mind crumble and it hits you and you're reminded: I'm gay. Except you don't turn into a giant green monster of epic strength; you turn into a puddle of agonizing emotions. You know what you are. You've heard your church leaders talk about it: you're a pervert, an abomination, abhorrent.

All of the words said about it run through your mind. Your mind replays in exquisite detail the look of disgust that played across your mother's face when she saw a gay kiss on television. Each joke, each grimace, each condemnation. You know that all of that is unknowingly directed at you. You're an abomination that is hiding in plain sight. If they knew the real you.. 

But there's no reason for them to ever know because you don't want to spend an eternity in torment cut off from your family. Because you really believe it. You believe the things that have been taught by the people you've trusted your whole life. So nobody, not even your most homophobic family member, could possibly hate you as much as you hate yourself. Your mind plays over the options endlessly: 

• embrace my disgusting self, and be cut off from my family in the next life, condemned to endless torture;
• live a life of celibacy, with no companionship. An entire life alone, with pity and mild disgust from those around you being your only company;
• suicide--cleansing the filth of your existence from the world, but guaranteeing your place in a hell and breaking your families heart

Sometimes pushing the Incredible Hulk back into his box, rebuilding the walls of denial, and forgetting about The Secret took only minutes or seconds. Sometimes it would take months. 

Life as a gay Mormon is feigned normalcy when you can manage the repression and sheer agony when you can't. 

Note: I write those options out in the way I thought of things growing up in the church. I know now that being gay is not filthy and that I'm a good person who deserves a happy, normal life.

Q. What's your current status with the church?

A. I've always been very invested in the church. It wasn't enough to just go to church, I felt like I really needed to live it in every aspect of my life. I'd planned to live a life of celibacy and I did...for twenty eight years. 

At one point however, I took a break from going to church for a couple weeks. After several years of going to a young single adult each week and listening to the constant reminders of a marriage I'd never have, I decided I needed a break from the torturous banality of it all. I stopped attending for a short while and when I did I was hit with a shocking realization: I was happy without church attendance in my life. In some ways I think I'd expected my life to fall apart and feel terrible on the weeks I skipped church. The reality was that nothing changed; if anything I found myself feeling more fulfilled and less focused on my own problems. 

This was opposite from what I expected would happen and it threw me for a loop. I decided I'd better get things figured out so I set to reading church materials to try to reconfirm my testimony. Unfortunately for the church, I'd learned a lot about critical thinking since the last time I'd really given the church an honest look. This time around I studied both sides of the issues, chased sources, and didn't accept platitudes and non-answers. After a lot of study and soul searching, I came to the conclusion that the church is not what it claims it is. I left the church almost a year ago and will at some point have my records removed if I'm not excommunicated first.

Q. Are you out to friends and family? If you're not out, what keeps you in the closet?

A. I'm out to my immediate family only, as well as a couple of friends that I knew would be supportive due to their being in similar situations, or no longer Mormon. 

Growing up, I was as closeted as you could get. The thought of admitting I was gay to anyone was enough to conjure detailed suicide plans. If I had been outed as a youth, there is no question in my mind: I would not have survived that day. For lots of years I tried to convince myself that I was imagining things. The thought that I could be gay was too awful to contemplate. 

After leaving the church, things quickly turned on their head and I became much less ashamed of my sexuality. However, I didn't think it was fair to drop two bombs on my family at the same time so I waited for a while before telling my parents. My siblings found out shortly after, and I plan to tell close friends soon, and then make a general social media announcement. I'm impatient to be out of the shadows that I've hidden in for so many years.

Q. What is your current status? (Single, in a relationship, etc.) Are you happy?

A. Right now I'm single. I'm temporarily living in a rural town, so my opportunities to meet people are beyond limited. My whole life I've craved companionship, but it was never a possibility. I'm like an audiophile who was born deaf--my one desire was an impossibility. 

Yet now, here I am. I'm impatient to begin. Hopefully soon I will find a job in another state, move, and be able to find mutual affection for the first time in my life. It's incredible for me to think about. So am I happy? Right now I'm in agony waiting, worrying about the unknowns, and terrified that I won't be able to find the right person. However, I have hope and that's more than I have ever had in my life, so yes; I'm ecstatic.

Q. Who is your celebrity crush?

A. Celebrity crush? Why isn't that plural? How can I possibly pick just one celebrity crush? The best I can do is three: Chris Pratt, Channing Tatum, and Brendon Urie. I've got a thing for people who are comfortable laughing at themselves.

Q. How do you see yourself in the future? (Staying with the church, leaving it, balance both sexuality and church, etc.)

A. Once my family and friends have had a little time for my being gay to sink in I'd like to leave the church on paper. I think severing that technicality would give things a note of finality that would help my subconscious as well as my parents. My parents go through constant torture; hoping that I'll change my mind and somehow the glass will be unbroken. Having my name removed would help I think. 

In my wildest of dreams this is where I see myself: in love with a man who feels the same way about me. Some days I'll wake up before he does, and I'll just watch him while he peacefully sleeps and wonder how I ever thought that self-hate and a lifetime of denial was an option. We'll explore, grow, and learn together. Some nights we'll just curl up on the couch and read. On the weekend we go camping--and as we cuddle together for warmth we stare up at the stars and we talk about life. When the time is right we adopt children and spend our lives loving them. That's my dream, and I hope that someday that will be my future.

Q. What was your immediate reaction to the Handbook policy change on gay couples and kids?

A. I felt like I'd been kicked in the gut with a boot made of knives. Even though I had left the church, this was a clear message of intolerance. All of my family, immediate and extended, on both sides...everyone is Mormon. How would this affect their treatment of me? And what about the people that are still trying to make things work with the church?  

I may not want my children near the church, but that doesn't make me feel any less hurt for those that do. There is no defending it; the policy change is despicable. If those words are from God, then I have no desire to spend eternity with that God. The silver lining was that the policy change set things in motion and a couple days after it was leaked I came out to my parents.

Q. Anything else you'd like to add?

A. Whether you're still an active believer in the church or not; don't ever hate yourself or be ashamed of who you are. You've probably gone through most of your life hearing disparaging remarks, directly or indirectly. This isn't something you chose. It isn't a weakness, temptation, or character flaw. 

Hating yourself because you are gay is like hating yourself because you were born with blue eyes. If you can't accept yourself now, cut out those who pull you down and find those that lift you up. Because afterlife or not, this life is way too short to be spent in misery and self-loathing. If you need someone to talk to get in touch with me.  (GMS Note: contact me, and I'll put you in touch with him) 

Who are you? Part 2 - Not all of us are Moho's

Speaking on behalf of Adele: Hello.

In my continued quest to share the not-so-public stories of fellow Moho's, I bring you Part 2. However, this story does not involve a Moho. (Say what?!) I've learned that not all readers to this blog are Mormon and gay! Who would've thunk.

I was contacted by an awesome guy who called himself a "moderately-secular Jew" and my curiosity piqued. I tossed out a few questions and below you'll read his story. It's so interesting to learn about someone who grew up in a different environment, but how similar our stories can be. (All his answers are great, but I especially like the response to the next-to-last question.)  

I really love doing this. I hope you'll share your story with me as well.  

Q.  Briefly explain your correlation to the Moho community. 

A. Well, when I was first coming out for real, I was Googling around and somehow found myself on a Moho blog. Quite frankly, it was really interesting and it was linked to lots of other similar blogs. I've always really loved personal narratives (This American Life, The Moth, etc.) and they were basically people going through something similar to what I was going through, but in very different circumstances. I guess it put things in perspective. After reading them for a while, I became use to the terminology and it has sort of remained something interesting and very human to read when I'm procrastinating. I sometimes feel a bit like I'm invading your community, so I tend to try not to be too involved other than reading.

Q. As a non-Mormon, what attracted you to all the gay Mormon bloggers? 

A. Oh, well, I guess this is a bit complicated. So, I was raised in a relatively secular Jewish family and lived in an area where no one was particularly religious, regardless of what religion they were. I've always been interested in religion in general and more conservative forms of Christianity in particular. It's just very different than what I grew up in, so it's interesting to hear that perspective. That was probably what came to mind when I stumbled on a moho blog. I guess I've learned in time from bloggers how different Mormonism is and I've gained an appreciation for it. I think it's pretty neat for a lot of reasons: It's uniquely American, it's based around a very organized form of community, and it gives really practical implications for how to live your life. I don't think it's for me, but it's definitely interesting.

Q. Explain your coming out experience. 

A. It sort of went in two phases. I first told some people at a party in high school. A friend asked me if I was gay, I think as a joke, but I had been thinking of telling people anyway, so I made myself spit out yes and then burst into tears. While my then-girlfriend (!) was consoling me, I made my brother call my parents and tell them. They weren't angry, but they were concerned that I hadn't thought it through and and a psychologist friend of theirs recommended that I see a therapist who focused on teen identity issues. He kept trying to convince me that there was no reason to lock down my identity and that it would come in time. I was scared and wasn't really in the fighting mood, so I just stayed closeted for the rest of high school. 

When I got to my very liberal college, I quickly realized that any trepidation I had would have to take a backseat to my desire to date some of the very beautiful gay men that seemed to be everywhere. With the help of a support group, I told my friends and my immediate family, which by that point was pretty uneventful. It was stressful for the first year or so because I didn't really have anyone to confide in other than my support group (probably one reason why I really appreciated the Moho blogs), but after that, it was good.

Q. What's your status right now? (Single, in a relationship, etc.)  Are you happy? 

A. I'm married. I met my husband seven years ago, less than a year after I came out. We had both just gotten out of other relationships and he claimed he could never see us together, but after a few months of hanging out together every day, he finally came around. We got married last summer in a big, casual, outdoor ceremony with my older brother officiating, our other brothers as best men, and our parents holding the poles of the chuppah (it's a wedding canopy that represents your new household). 

I'm really very happy. My husband is great - he's odd and delightful. We live in a gay-ish part of a big city, where a lot of our friends are in walking distance and my cousins are close by. I have a job I really like, where I'm out and where my husband comes to hang out with my office. I had thought at one point that being gay would prevent me from working in most sectors, but in reality, turns out you can do just fine as a gay guy in the defense industry. Things are good with my family and I still have almost all my old friends. I've also made a lot of new friends, primarily through work and rock climbing, which I do with a gay group.

Q. What advice do you have for Moho's who may be struggling with their sexuality and trying to balance church attendance? 

A. I am wildly unqualified to give advice on this - I got more religious when I came out. Here's my best shot: So, when I was a senior in college, there was a big argument in my religious community about a reading of the sexual prohibitions in Leviticus at an important occasion. It was a long story and the outcome was fine, but it left me with a bad taste in my mouth about how some people in the community wanted to preserve an unimportant tradition at the expense of the dignity of their gay peers, against the advice of our rabbi. At the same time, my boyfriend was going through a serious crisis and the only time we could really relax together was Friday night, when I was usually at prayers. Things were also getting very serious between us and I began to realize I would have to make some concessions to make a life with the non-Jewish guy I loved (intermarriage is still taboo for Jews, much more so than homosexuality). 

I ultimately decided that I had to approach religion on my own terms or it wouldn't be a source of joy for me anymore. If I skipped Sabbath prayers to have a family dinner with him, so be it. I could make decisions on an ad hoc basis without worrying how religious or non-religious it makes me. 

I've found that has worked really well for me. I realize it's a lot harder to approach Mormonism on your own terms, but I think it's at least a helpful way to conceptualize it.

 Q.  Anything else you'd like to add? 

A. Whoever you are and whatever you're facing, you're not the first and you're not the only one. People can get so wrapped up in the idea that they are unique or in an unusual situation. In truth, everyone around you has been in a slightly unique situation and they all got out okay. Take strength in the fact that others have faced the same thing and move forward to whatever that might be.

Who are you? Part 1 of (hopefully) many

I've shared this plenty of times - but it's worth repeating: I love blogging. I'm grateful I have this outlet to share my story and what's on my mind. Blogging is "so 5 (10?) years ago," but it's all about showing up fashionably late. It's liberating to spew my thoughts of growing up gay and Mormon.

I have no regrets in starting this little blog two years ago and for various reasons, I'm glad I've kept my posts anonymous. Ironically, today is National Coming Out Day, but sorry, I won't be doing that publically on my blog! (But those who've reached out to me know that once I'm comfortable chatting, I reveal my true self and am Facebook friends with a few of you!)

As I've shared my story with you over the past two years, there's one thing that I DON'T like in authoring a blog: I don't know YOUR story. Yes, you. The person reading this right now. YOU. If you haven't reached out via email or left a comment, I don't know anything about you. And that bugs me! Blogger does throw out a few analytics, but still, I'm in the dark and I have so many questions I want to ask YOU. Yes, you. I love reading others' stories - hearing them all was my motivation to start sharing my own. They're all so different. So fascinating. And for many, so secret.  

While Gay Mormon Stories and Far Between are great outlets to share stories, you lose the anonymity. Staying anonymous allows ME to share a little bit more - a few extra secrets. So this gave me an idea. I'll start collecting YOUR stories and post them here. All anonymously, of course. People tend to share more and dig a little deeper if they know there would be no repercussions. This is similar to the confessions stunt I did, but on a more detailed scale. (Sheesh, I'm so nosy!) :) And again, those of you who know the 'real me,' the reason for doing this makes perfect sense!

I've reached out to a few people and I'll continue to do so. Below you'll find the first Q & A. This interview is with a straight woman who married a gay man. (*Names have been changed.) The only background I had was this was a woman in a Mixed-Orientation Marriage and I based my questions off that single fact - and I tossed out all the questions at once. These stories are in random order. I have no reason for starting off with this interview - other than the fact it's extremely interesting.

If YOU (yes, you) want to share your story - let me know. Contact me using the form on the right or drop me a line - gaymormonsouthpaw (at) gmail (dot) com. And again, I promise full anonymity. You give me your one single fact - and I'll ask my questions based on that.

Without further ado....

Q. Briefly explain your correlation to the Moho community. 

A. There is almost no motivation for me to remain connected to the gay Mormon community because I have left Mormonism entirely. Fairly early in my marriage I fantasized about turning my mixed-orientation marriage into a source of strength for other mormons in the same type of marriage. We could host fabulous brunch support group sessions with other couples and help strengthen other marriages. It was a very complex set of dreams that I had hoped to accomplish to make this arrangement make some sense. Then I woke up and realized that I wanted absolutely nothing to do with Mormonism any more, so those dreams of heroism died an unfulfilled death.

Q. Did you know your husband was gay before marrying him? 

A. I did. There were a couple of stages of coming to this awareness. After our first date, my co-workers were asking how it went and I told them that I would probably never see him again because Craig* was pretty obviously gay. I figured that was the end of that. But Craig kept calling and we kept going out so I began to dismiss the idea that he was actively gay, and was maybe just effeminate.After we had dated for about a year, we took a long weekend to drive and let Craig meet my parents. This may seem a little unbelievable but on that drive Craig was reading the new Greg Louganis biography. Once I saw that book, I figured at that point that he was definitely gay, or at least had those inclinations. On the drive back from meeting my parents, Craig made the big reveal. For as aware as I was that Craig was probably gay, the talk went poorly and I freaked. It made it so real to hear him say that about himself, plus I realized the degree to which he still identified with his homosexuality. That was startling to hear.

Q. How did 'the talk' go once he confessed? 

A. I think the talk went poorly, considering all the clues that I had already picked up on. At this point I loved him and this was a big unknown and risky variable that was being introduced into the relationship. It was horribly scary and I didn't expect the massive emotional reaction that came out. It was hours of sobbing and I was so sad.But I'm a live-and-let-live type of gal and thought that everyone deserved their chance at making a family work so by the next day I was pretty chill with the idea. I told him almost immediately that I knew he was still Craig and this new information didn't change my feelings for him.In hindsight, that was idiocy. Knowing what I know now, I realize that I was only being given part of the information. I didn't know this at the time but Craig had already had multiple male sex partners and he was still actively banging his best friend, but at the time, all I saw was a nice dude who wanted a shot at having a family.

Q. What are the advantages of being married to a gay man? 

A. Craig was a somewhat stereotypical gay man. He liked to shop, he liked to chat, and he liked to keep the floors clean. So those were all pretty handy benefits. I am domestic-skills impaired so for our first Christmas as a married couple I gave him a sewing machine, knowing that I would soon get some fantastic curtains for our new house.

Q. Disadvantages? 

A. Too many and too painful to dig too deep here. The overarching problem is that everything was a lie. He was trying to fake straight because his conservative, LDS upbringing guilted him into that. I'm not the first person to use this terminology but it was an immediate sensation that I had just been pulled into the closet with him, and NOT in a fun high school make-out sort of way. I cut off my friends and family. I completely turned inward because of this big secret that I was now also living. In retrospect, it was devastating to me emotionally but I was loyal to a fault and would never throw him over for something that was entirely out of his control.The major problem is that our two kids ended up caught in this lie. In the end, I learned that entering a MOM is a completely selfish move for both Craig and myself. I was selfish to expect him to limit himself to a heterosexual marriage that he had only limited ability to engage in. He was selfish to expect me to give up a normal sense of marriage, partnership, and sex life to play cover for his homosexuality. He married me to be his beard, and everybody lost.

Q. What is your status now? (divorced? Exmo? etc.) What's his status? 

A. As for the status of the marriage, we are right now working through a contentious divorce and it is not pleasant. He has a new partner and "has never been happier." He wants to leg it away from us and pretend that there is no financial responsibility to us because he is so happy moving on and pretending that we don't exist.As for religion, I am exmormon and haven't attended mormon church services for maybe about three years now. Our kids are teens and they have also left the mormon church. Craig doesn't talk to me at all and lives a few thousand miles away so I am only guessing, but I'm pretty sure that he is also now exmormon.

Q. Do you two remain friends? 

A. No. I am too susceptible to his lies and self-serving manipulation so I have had to make a clean break now that the kids are old enough to manage their own communications with him. Plus I see how he has treated his kids now that he has a new partner and wants to pretend that they don't exist, and it's pretty difficult being friends with that kind of person. The dishonesty killed the friendship and relationship far more than any gayness could have.

Q. What advice do you have for folks about to enter a MOM? 

A. Anyone entering a MOM is making a horrible mistake. It cannot succeed and is entirely unfair to absolutely everyone involved. Each partner is being selfish and both are being cruel to any resulting children.

Q. How much blame to you put on the church? (If any.) 

A. I definitely hold the church as being partially to blame. Craig was so indoctrinated and terrified to be his gay self that he had to fake a heterosexual marriage. I was so indoctrinated that my only path forward as a woman was to be married and produce children that I accepted this sham of a marriage. The church puts this burden of expectation of a single path forward for its members and that will always be a recipe for disaster, especially when dealing with encouraging mixed-orientation marriage, as was the church policy back when we were dating and married.

Q. Is life better now? How so? 

A. Life is better to be away from the daily head games that come when one partner is sleeping with dozens of anonymous randoms every month and racking up the more permanent lovers in several cities that he had to travel to for work. The lies are over and done with but I'm now almost 50 years old and have little to no prospect of ever trusting another man again. My kids miss their dad but they don't recognize that man that he is now. He used to be an engaged father who was fun and awesome. Now that he is done living the lie, he has moved on in every respect and has no time for them at all anymore. He will go several months without calling them. It is a very messy situation. Nobody won.

Q. Anything else you'd like to add? 

A. Maybe one thing that some people might wonder is whether the kids now know that their father is gay and how that went down. This is something that I thought about a lot before I acted. For about a year before I told them, I introduced them to the TV show "Modern Family." We lived abroad and didn't watch US television so they had never seen it. I introduced that show to them to normalize the idea of gay couples of how they are just normal members of the family.One afternoon I gave them the basic run down to catch them up on the details of their family. I told them that their dad was gay (he was already living thousands of miles away from us at the time is why he wasn't a part of the conversation), that he wanted a divorce, and that he had a new boyfriend. They were not at all shocked about the gay part, and hardly cared. Gay is so normal to this generation that the impact from that was incredibly minimal. The massive impact was how they were crushed that he had told me he wanted a divorce. That was the entire emotional blow. But funnily enough, my clever children processed this information for a few minutes, asked some basic questions, and then said, "Hey, is this why you had us start watching 'Modern Family?'" That was so funny that it only took them minutes to see right through my plan to normalize as much as possible. My kids were 15 and 13 at the time.