Falling into old habits: dating Mormon guys

Hello! How's everybody doing? The Moho blogosphere has been kinda quiet and uneventful as of late, and I too haven't had much motivation to speak my mind. But it's a quiet Sunday and thought I'd toss out a random story.

In my post where I said 'so long' to the LDS Church, I made a comment that my social and dating circle has grown by leaps and bounds since separating myself from Mormonism. That statement is still true, but I've also fallen into an old habit: only seeking out Mormon guys to date. I don't know why. I consider myself an ex-Mormon, yet still find myself attracted to others with an LDS background. I guess the ole "Can leave the church but can't leave it alone" statement really resonates with me.

Many years ago, a friend actively involved in North Star said, "I will never date guys, but if I did, I would never date another Mormon." When he said this, I thought he was crazy. But now, all these years later, I understand why he made that comment.

For example...

I met a Moho on Tinder. Very sweet, caring, little younger than me. He actively dates guys, yet still actively goes to church every week. His bishop doesn't seem to care. He has his doubts about the church, but he'd rather attend church with his friends that contemplate the veracity of the gospel.

I met another Moho on OKCupid. He was married to a woman and has a couple kids. (He's now divorced.) Former Bishopric counselor. Very compassionate, patient, amazing cuddler. He doesn't attend church anymore, but still believes the LDS Church is the only true church on the face of the earth.

Another Moho dates men, stopped attending church, but still has LDS themed art and temple pictures hanging in his home. He'll tell me that he misses going to church.

It's been a challenge to go out with Moho's with conflicting beliefs. I've had a few disagreements with these guys in casual conversations.

(I'm sure you're curious as to how I 'find' all these Mormons. When using apps like Tinder or OKCupid it's easy to spot the Mohos. Profiles with BYU or BYU-Idaho or Univ. of Utah, etc. will always catch my attention. Plus when you land on a Tinder profile and together you have more than 5 mutual friends that are LDS, chances are that person is also LDS.)

It's frustrating, but I know how these guys feel. I was on the fence for so long! Trying to balance my homosexuality with my church attendance. It wasn't until I decide to leave one (the church) and accept the other (my gayness) that I saw the light and became perfectly content. So why am I still attracted to the fence sitters?! I do not try to de-convert these guys and persuade them to leave like I did. I guess I don't have an answer.

Finding other gay Mormons makes for an easy conversation starter. It's the perfect ice breaker. (You're gay AND you served an LDS mission?! So did I!) Bam. Instant friendship. But the more you find out about each other, the more confused you get. (I should have listened to my North Star friend - he actually had a point!) A year ago, I wouldn't have a problem going out with these guys. But now as a non-believer, it's turned into a deal breaker. (Yep, I used ice breaker and deal breaker in the same paragraph!)

So in the never-ending battle of dating guys, I need to focus more on people who have no knowledge of the LDS Church. (Or ex-Mormons. I don't have a problem going out with people who have completely left the church, like I have.) ... We'll just not leave it alone together. :)

You're taking a break from the church. Now what?

Many of the Moho's I chat with privately have either left the church all together or slowly distancing themselves.

I really struggled on the social aspect since I stopped attending church. When it was time to branch out and meet new people, I was set on meeting other gay Mormons or gay ex-Mormons in person. They were in my comfort zone. But with the millions of people in a 50-mile radius of me, I can count on both hands the number of gay Mormons I know personally. I needed to branch out even more. But how?! For all my life, my main circle of friends have been LDS. Where do I go from here?

Fortunately, there ARE other ways to find friends/dates with similar interests. Below are some ways you can branch out if you've decided to suspend those weekly visits to the LDS Church.

*Reddit - If you'd like to have intelligent conversations with like-minded ex-Mormons or unconventional Mormons, Reddit is a great place to start. The ex-Mormon and Mormon forums are filled with thoughtful information; and a good amount of folks found here are gay. (Some will put a rainbow flag next to their username.) The problem with Reddit is that most people stay anonymous. The nice thing about Reddit is there is a Private Message function to contact potential new friends. If you choose to converse with ExMo's, no matter where you live, you're not alone!

*Tinder - The app helped me come out of the closet. It was the first time I've attached my face publically to a profile. Yes, you gotta weed out those just looking for hook-ups, but I still found great conversation with other gay dudes who live near me. (I have not used Grindr, Jack'd or Scruff, but I'd love to hear experiences/success stories from those who have.)

*OKCupid/Match - I signed up for OKCupid about a month ago, and have had success. I've gone on a few dates with some awesome guys. Match lets you label yourself as "LDS/Mormon" while OKCupid lets you label yourself as Christian. Many people will include the importance of church/religion/spirituality in their profile, which may help you on your search. However, there are some crazies on these sites. Be careful who you give your phone number to. (I learned this the hard way and now have to deal with a gazillion texts from a couple weirdos.)  

*MeetUp - If you're not ready to date, it's nice to find people with similar interests near you. Take note that there is an LGBT category.

*Gay Christian Network - I don't know much about the group, and the forums are kinda slow, but if you're set on finding gay people with a similar upbringing, you may peruse a bit here. After a search of the forums, you may find a local Facebook group that's likely a little more active.

*Gay sports - My buddy Evan left this comment on a blog post:   "Can I recommend gay sports? I joined a rock climbing group last year and it completely changed my social life. Everyone was so friendly, welcome, and genuine and we get to do just casual hang out stuff (this Friday some guys are going to do karaoke). I know they are particularly common in my area, but there are often a range of LGBT sports and arts groups in each city."

My point is that your social life doesn't have to evolve around Mormonism. It took me awhile to figure that out, but now I've spread my wings a bit and am in a much better place. 

What outlets have you used to find new friends/relationships/dates? Leave your thoughts in the comments! 

A gay Mormon's adventures on Tinder (part 2)

Hello and Merry Christmas! The Moho blogosphere has died down a bit since the unexpected announcement on the Handbook revision. I'm still pissed about it, but feel it's the right time to return to my random, light-hearted ramblings. So...let's talk about Tinder, again.

Earlier this year, I decided to join the Tinder game. The app uses your location to find potential matches/dates. You get a stack of profiles with pictures and a short paragraph, and you swipe left if the person is a "NO." Swipe right if you're interested. If you both swipe right, then it's a match, and you can chat.

I made a post right after I downloaded the app, so I was an extreme novice. My buddy over at The Mostly Unfabulous Life of a Mormon Boy requested an update (6 months ago.) So here it is!

I have a typical introductory paragraph on Tinder. Simple but nothing too "out there." But if I deleted my description and wrote about my ACTUAL life, it would be:

30-something disaffected gay Mormon who is still kind of in the closet. I've never had a serious relationship with a guy. I like cuddling. 

Fortunately, my description is nothing like the above, and I've matched with a handful of guys.

I still use the app and below you'll find a list of my experiences/thoughts on Tinder. Now, I've had some great things happen with the app and met some awesome people, but this will focus on the weirder/unique side. (because that's more fun to blog about!)

Here we go....

• I matched with a guy about 7 years younger than me who keeps calling me "Daddy."
• I did a quick Google search on a match, and found his mugshot. 
• Another Google search on a different guy led me to a match's naked pictures and videos. 
• I matched with a great guy, then found out he was married (to a woman.) Very unfortunate as the dude is hot. 
• I've learned that any guy "22 miles away" from me is most likely someone who has a long layover at the airport in my city.  (Meaning it's highly unlikely I'll ever meet this person.)
• Correct grammar is such a turn-on. 
• Height is such a big deal on Tinder, (or at least gay Tinder!) it's fascinating to me. (If anyone cares, I'm 6'1"!)
• While swiping through profiles, I found a guy who was obviously in an LDS Chapel. (carpeted walls, Jesus pic, etc.) Sadly, we didn't match. Where art thou mystery Moho?!  
• Having a co-worker pop up is quite awkward. 
• Getting compliments still makes me feel all tingly inside. 

Ok, that last one wasn't awkward. Basically I think Tinder is a nice stepping stone in this whole coming-out journey and accepting myself. I'm not hiding behind an alias. It's almost liberating that I just get to be myself.

Maybe Part 3 will be some kind of success story! :-)

That one time a haunted house date nearly turned me straight

Happy Fall! I love this time of year. Cooler weather. Football. Start of the holiday season.

Seeing the sudden display of Halloween decorations at stores (they sure do get bigger and bigger every year) reminded me of a date that was a big turning point for me.

Many years ago, I went on a group date to a haunted house. (I probably don't need to tell you this, but yes, it was a Mormon group date.) This haunted house was one of the super freaky deaky ones in the middle of nowhere. The employees work and prepare all year for their one month of business.

Now, haunted houses don't really bother me, EXCEPT for when I have to crawl. For some reason, claustrophobia hits me like a rock when I have to get on my hands and knees.

But anyway, back to this date. The girl was awesome. Great person to talk to, funny, cute, we had similar interests, all the good stuff. (So what if I had no physical attraction to her whatsoever!) :-)

She, on the other hand, wasn't a big fan of haunted houses. It only took a few minutes of scares and screams before I knew she was miserable. I think her exact words were, "I don't like this."

Then something interesting happened. Something I had never felt before. She grabbed my hand. And held on tight. She moved in close to me as we walked. I am considerably taller, so she fit just right under my chin. I felt this sudden burst of power. My typical bubble had been burst. She was looking for comfort and security and I was able to give it to her. I was ENJOYING this physical touch.

This gave me a new high. Maybe I could develop feelings for a woman?! It's like the gay switch was turned off and I'm now heterosexual!!! Woo hoo!! Plan of salvation here we come!

But the high didn't last long. The key word for this story is: temporary. For just a few moments, I thought I could be straight and live the life I was taught to have. When the night was over, and I went back home, I likely imagined what it would be like to hold hands and comfort another guy. (And it probably would have felt a LOT better.) The date was a temporary rush that quickly dissipated.

I've had a lot of these temporary moments. I start having a really good time with a girl, and think, maybe she's the one! Only to return back to who I really am once I get home -- gay. And always will be.

The high I felt at the haunted house, followed by the low at the end of the night - was the deciding factor for me to stop trying to find "the one" (girl.) There's no way I could turn these temporary bursts of attraction into a life-long marriage to a woman. I felt horrible leading these girls on - and it was time to move on. The haunted house was a turning point as I started to shift my focus to dates with guys instead of women - and as I've mentioned many times throughout my blog - I've never been happier.

Have I gone to a haunted house with a guy? No. But I think it would be fabulous! (As long as there's no crawling.)      

As a true southpaw, swiping LEFT on the rejects is slightly offensive

I got bored this past weekend. A little too bored.

I was in the mood to do something adventurous. I've heard a lot of talk about Tinder and thought, 'eh, what the heck?'

This is a huge step. I'm only out to close family and a few friends, so attaching my face and name on a dating app was a little nerveracking.

(For those of you who don't know, Tinder is a "location-based social discovery application that facilitates communication between mutually interested users." Thank you Wikipedia.)

I downloaded the app to my tablet, connected to my Facebook profile, to which it defaulted to 'search for women,' which made me chuckle. I switched it to 'men' and fastened my seatbelt.

If you see someone you like, you swipe to the right, if you'd rather pass on someone, swipe to the left. As if lefties don't deal with enough difficulties in a right-dominated world, swiping to the left for the "thanks, but no thanks" options adds a little salt to the wound. But I digress.

This is how my extremely short evening went:

Ooh. He's cute. Swipe right.
What is he wearing?! Swipe left.
Nice body, but I don't see a face. Swipe left.
Oh my gosh. I love him. Swipe right.
Please keep your freaking tongue in your mouth. Swipe left.
Duck face on a dude is just not attractive. Swipe left.
He's my age and we have lots of similar interests?! Swipe right.
I'm like a kid in a candy store. A candy store full of pretty men.

Then about 3 minutes later...

I get a notification: "It's a match!"
Wait. What?! I just signed up for this thing. How do I already have a match?!
(Pause for explanation: I swiped right on his profile. He swiped right on mine.)
Yes, he's cute. The feelings are mutual?! I can't believe this. Oh boy, this is all happening so fast.
I can't concentrate anymore and am done swiping.
I get a notification: Match dude has sent me a message?!
What?! What do I do?!
Way too fast! I can't take the pressure!
I freeze.
I log out.
I kinda freak out, but with a smile on my face.
Is this real life?
To be continued....

I got asked out by a guy via email...

After my post on friends, I'm about to drop a bombshell!

As 'far out' as this may seem, the following story really did happen.  Promise!  To protect those involved, I will slightly change some of the details.

Here goes.

I'm out in public a lot with my job.  I meet people through community meetings, public events, etc.  In other words, I don't sit at a desk all day.  (This is one of the reasons I'm so closeted.)

For being so 'out and about.'  It's easy for anyone to contact me.  One could easily get my (real!) email, Twitter, Facebook, etc.  Plus my (real!) name is unique enough, a quick Google search will give you any and all contact info.

One day, I get an email from a guy.  This person had seen me 'out and about' and wanted to get to know me better.  He complimented my looks and personality.  He gave enough details describing myself that everything seemed legit.  He nonchalantly asked if I was gay, and if so, he wanted to "buy me a drink or dinner."

After the first skim-through of the email, I was quite excited.  A guy interested in me?!  This just made my day.. my week..  heck, my year!  A guy asking me out on a date?!  This would be the first, and it felt so nice.

I then read the email a second time, this time more thoroughly.  And it was just too... perfect.  The phrase "if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is" was going through my head.  The excitement quickly went away and I became upset.  I did a search of the email and name on Facebook and Google and got nothing.  Yep.  I was had.

But why?  Who sent me the email?  Was someone trying to out me?  Again, the email was directed to me, thanks to all the details provided within.  (This ain't no Nigerian email scam.)

I wasn't going to let this go.  So I did more research.   I learned awhile back you can take the IP address from the email and (sometimes!) get the sender's location.  I gave that a try.  If the person was local, I could respond, but avoid answering the gay question, for now.  I knew I was being had, so why not turn this into a game?!  

I took the IP address from his email, plugged it in, hit search... And my mouth dropped.

Not only did I get the sender's location, I also was given the employer of said sender.  It basically put a bullseye on him.

(I know these IP searches don't always work, but I am 95% convinced.)

I knew him.   He's a good friend who now lives in another state....  A married friend.....  LDS.....  With a family.

Why?  Why did this friend pretend to be a gay guy and fake ask me out?  Or is my friend really gay and is actually interested?  Or was it a plea for help?  If he is gay, why did he get married 'for time and eternity' to a woman then ask out people like me?  

I never wrote back.  Not his fake identity or his real identity.  If he were single, I'd contact him.  But I can't mess with someone who's married with kids.  If she somehow found out, I could possibly ruin a marriage.

I'm telling this because these are the types of stories that never get told.   I'm telling this because it's been on my mind ever since it's happened, and I've told no one.  It's starting to mess with my head, and I had to get it out in the open.  (Would YOU confront a married guy who was attempting to hide under an alias?  Am I being too overprotective of his wife and kids while he gets away with it?)   I'm tired of reading about all the happy Mormon married stories on the 'net, all while a husband is going behind his wife's back and contacting other guys.  

I do have a message to my friend, if you ever read this:  Contact me by my real email or Facebook.  To answer your question, yes, I'm gay.  Let's talk about it.  I still want to know 'why?'  Why did you make up a fake identity then contact me?  Everyone thinks you have the perfect life and job with a wonderful family.

Why?      

I'm not very good at this whole gay thing

Hopefully by now, you've picked up that I would be up to dating guys.  I feel my laid-back 'whatever' approach in my writing shows that.

When I finally got over the denial and accepted my sexuality, I made myself two promises:

1) I refuse to stay celibate.
2) I refuse to marry a woman.

Both those go against what I've learned in the church which is why I shared my struggles in my Q&A.

Here's the deal - I have yet to go out on an 'official' date with a guy.  To be honest, the idea of it kinda freaks me out.  (How do I act?  What if someone I know [from church] sees me?  Who pays?)

I've chatted face-to-face with other gay guys (all who happen to be Mormon) and it's mainly been a lot of talking.  Sharing stories and secrets with each other, venting, etc.  No real 'dates.'  And I wasn't ready for dating in my meetings with these guys.

But lately, I've been itchin' to try out the whole gay dating scene.  I prefer to find someone with an LDS background or basically the same values, but unfortunately, I've yet to find someone in this category where I live.

So let's say I do find someone, I'm still freaked out by the date itself.  And I was reminded by this just a couple days ago.

Quick story.   My car was in the shop and had to be kept overnight.  The dealership was out of loaner cars, so I went with Enterprise Rent-a-Car  ("We'll pick you up!")  I was picked up from the dealership (to take me back to Enterprise) by a very tall, attractive girl.  We chatted the whole ride.  We laughed.  We shared life stories.  We had a good time.  We were basically BFF's by the time the ride was over.  Next day.  I am taken back to the dealership by a tall, attractive guy.  Nothing.  Crickets.  We barely said a word except for his forced question of, "So... How was the car?"  The longest ride ever.  It was discouraging.  I'm all ready and excited for the new adventure of dating a guy, and I can barely even talk to this one.  (I feel the Enterprise dude was straight, but that almost seems irrelevant.)  Or should it be relevant?  So confused.

I KNOW I can talk to guys.  Heck, the first gay Mormon I ever met in person, we chatted for 8 hours straight.  But I feel my little rent-a-car experience was a setback.  I WANT to talk to guys.  I just need more practice.